Iconic: Nick Raphael

https://admin.headliner.ai/iconic-final-mp3

Uyi

Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of The Point of View. My name is Uyi Agbontaen and I am your host. In today's episode, I'm joined by my friend Nick Raphael. Up until recently, Nick was the head of Capital Rule Records. He has had 25 years in the music industry and has signed the likes of JayZ, Sam Smith, Liam Payne, Paloma Faith, and the list goes on.

Nick

You aren't even alive. Yeah, some things, as we know, culture, uh, go on forever. Listen, everyone knows who Shakespeare is today, right? No question. And there are certain things that will transcend time. Like Muhammad Ali. It doesn't matter if you're into boxing today. One knows who Muhammad Ali, right? And when you look especially in a business where I made my living in music, I talk to artists. Remembering now, I just turned 50, and I'm talking to kids generally, average age, I reckon the kids I talk to is between 18 and 22. As artists, let me say that's approximately some of them are younger. I signed kids at 16 and 17. When you're given a musical reference point, some things, like even watching my own daughter Harriet, who, you know, she will play things off her playlist, and I'll be like, Why are you playing that? That's the sort of music your grandparents like on another occasion. Like Frank Sinatra. Young people know Frank Sinatra. Absolutely. And I was very fortunate. I got to work with JayZ. I signed Jay Z in 1996. I can name drop Jay Z. It's relevant today, partly because he's married to Beyonce, partly because the greatest rapper of all time, in my opinion. But some people transcend time. Other people, like you just mentioned Eve, or if I mentioned Foxy Brown, or if I mentioned things that were big back in the day, and you might play the tunes and then, oh, that's a tune, but no one remembers who that artist is. So certain people transcend time. Certain songs transcend time. Certain fighters transcend time. So, like, let's say person we share in common, which is Roger as a fighter. No one's ever going to forget Roger's legacy.

Uyi

If you're into jiujitsu, right? There are people who are timeless, and there are certain people who were captured in time.

Nick

Yes, the best. The very best. There is something that elevates them above their peers. Listen, let's look at Superbowl this year. Doctor Drake does it. Do you know who booked the music to Super Bowl? Jay Z. I know JayZ booked Drake to do halftime. He curated it. He did his best songs. Um, he pulled out Mary, jay pulled out Snoop, he pulled out $0.50. He pulled out Eminem. It was incredible.

Uyi

It was incredible.

Nick

Okay. Did you see Jay during Still Dre? He wrapped every word in the audience like it was his own. Guess what? Uh, it is his home. He wrote the lyrics to it. Uh, so if you watch the barbershop thing, I think LeBron James, and I apologize for get the wrong basketball player. He tells the world, which I already knew. Doctor Drake called him up and said, I'm making my album. You're the best lyricist. Write a rap for me, too.

Speaker C

Uh, when you write for other people, I don't know if you do it anymore, but when you used to do it, how do you get, like, still? Dre is one of the greatest written songs ever. Not rock, but you actually write it exactly how Dre would speak. How do you channel because you have to be that character to write for them. You know what I mean? But on that reference track, I'm doing Dre and Snoop, the reference track, it sounds like Dumb, the Foxy reference. I'm glad to wag up on them. Um, yeah, but you got to have somewhat like a reverence for them, obviously, the music they were making and The Chronic and all that. In order for me to really know the essence of, um, dre and Snoop had to be like a study reverence of, um, what they were doing to say, like, even put myself in their shoes, think about that record. So that record came after Dre leaves Death Row. It was all about reminding people yeah, how my last album was The Prince.

Nick

These guys are iconic, and Madonna is iconic, and Elvis Presley was iconic, and Eminem is iconic. But there's loads of other people that had number one in all of their areas. Well, they Prince timeless. Absolutely. Everyone knows who Prince is. They will all know forever. Unfortunately, we'll all know Michael Jackson for the wrong reasons now. But musically, the man was an icon. Icon. Unfortunately, uh, he's tainted by the alleged stories about him and things he's alleged to have done. But he's still Michael Jackson in terms of iconograph. And the thing I strive for is iconic, because iconic then lasts forever. Only certain, uh, songs are iconic and last longer than the artist. You wouldn't know the artist, but you know the song. There's one song that always does well every year, and I just left my job at Universal, and I'd always see it on the charts internally, would do well every year. Mr. Brightside by The Killers. It's a song that for every year does well, even though probably the rest of The Killers doesn't do as well. Because that song just transcends everything else. Other artists, 50 Cent, Eminem, because the age group of people who are now into streaming, they love that music. But music soundtracks our lives. So I'll give you an example because it's more personal to explain and it's really freaking out. Charlie's got a girlfriend, my son, and they listened to Burke, and that big debut is called Debut Album. And my wife and I, 29 years ago, had our early courting with the album playing over and over again in a CD player. And then years later, my son is with his girlfriend. And ironically, the music coming out of their room is debuted by bureau. And my wife and I looked at each other. We never told him about Buck. We never think. But I also find the way they find music. And brilliant lockdown was one of the worst things ever. But one of the most beautiful things is the shopping Juice Baby. I used to use Excuse every day because Harriet was revising for A levels and I was trying to run an office on Zoom, and you're allowed to go out and, uh, get food provisions and stuff. So Juice Baby is open, and Harry and I would drive there 25 minutes from my house and 25 minutes back, and she would plug in her phone and she'd play her playlist, and then she'd play a song. And I didn't even realize she knew that song. And I said, Oh, have you heard this? And she said, no. We play the song I recommended, and then two days later, we're doing the same drive and she'd be going to a playlist again. And then that song I recommended has now hit the playlist. And I was seeing the musical dialogue between father and daughter, and it was amazing. But some of the things she was into, I was like, no way. How did you get into that? Where did you find that? For me, music obviously so integral to my life, watching my children find music that I grew up on, but they're singing it for different reasons. So there'll be a TV show and it has a piece of music that we know as kids, but they know the TV show music. So I'll be like, Oh, how do you know this? And they go, Oh, it will win big little Lies or something. I'll be like, Oh, that's where you found it. Did you know that from the start? And they're like, I don't care.

Uyi

I'm sure you have a sound system. You have a sound system. No, you don't.

Nick

I don't. Because majority of people that buy the music or consume the music by make listen to it through their phone. So meet up there with a 20,000 pound sound system, which you can spend that and more. You can spend £20,000 on speakers and then you can spend 10,000 pound lamp if you're being anal about it, I think that's not how I'm going to hear how records sound when I'm in the studio. I'm hearing it on hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of equipment. But actually, back in the day, you're going to laugh. When we used to make records when it was on CD, we'd burn a CD in the studio. We'd sit in our car, listen to it in our car stereo, and then go back and say the vocals are loud enough or the drums are too quiet. Because it's all very good in the studio where everything is so pristine. But actually, when someone's listening to it through the stereo system. The car and the stereo system costs £90 at the time. And the speakers are like 26 speakers. That's not going to be a good reference when you're listening to it through NS Tens in the studio, or through individually made big speakers that would make almost anything with a kick drum sound good. But when it comes to music and everybody else is sat at home having listening parties, I'm watching TV or watching.

Uyi

Football or watching something that isn't that it's relative. Going back to, uh, musical experiences, I was going to say the second thing, apart from my dad, was movies.

Nick

Yes.

Uyi

Movies were the musical source where you'd hear songs that you hadn't necessarily heard. For me, I think of Scorsese and you're hearing amazing music that he's listened to in his childhood and he's put it in good feathers.

Nick

Yeah. Okay, I'm going to play games for music because you made me think about it. Right. What movie does this come from? Circle of Life mean?

Uyi

The Lion King.

Nick

Okay. Maria McKee, Show Me Heaven.

Uyi

I feel like it's going to be something like Top Gun.

Nick

Oh, my God. Perfect. Yeah. Okay. So there's a whole thing. One of my favorite books of all.

Uyi

The books, nick is saying this because I like movies, but you referenced it.

Nick

My point is so the guy that did those moved on. Simply brilliant book about it called High Concept. If you haven't read the book, read it. It's incredible. And he realized in the MTV generation, if he could get an artist to make an original song and instead of having a video, would cut up footage from his movie and release the song, um, six weeks, eight weeks out of the movie, MTV would show it on continuation. And basically it was a three minute free trailer for his movie. Okay. What a feeling. What was that? His first hit? Um, and the Girls, Irene Cara flashed on 100%. Then he did Show Me Heaven for a Top Gun. Days of Thunder had a big song. I can't think what it was.

Uyi

No, that was still Top Gun, wasn't it? I can't remember.

Nick

Days of Thunder had a big song as well. Every movie he did, he would have a song for the movie and he would have a video. And basically, if you're making a video, let's say you're making a video of $100,000 at a time, or $200,000, which is significant amount of money. If you're making a movie for $30 million and you're cutting out the best footage from the movie and showing it for 3 minutes, whose video is going to be better? My $100,000 video or this incredible video where you'd intertwine a $30,000 performance for the artist, but you get this video and MPV go, oh my God, what a video. And they put it on high rotation. And then Don Simpson and Jerry Brookheimer, who's his partner, who later did Independence Day and loads of huge movies they realized that this was basically the ultimate free advertising. So all their movies opened with anticipation, with a teen audience. And you put good looking teen star and Kelly McGillis and Tom Cruise. You can afford to get Tom Cruise in your music video. If there's a film that's coming, you'd have Tom Cruise in the video.

Uyi

Unless you're Michael Jackson, you could afford to get a lot of money.

Nick

Here's one for you. A movie director shot the Red Hot Chili Pepper videos before he became bigtime director, and then shot seven. So you know who shot seven? David Fincher.

Uyi

Fincher a, uh, lot of people became.

Nick

Movie directors from music video. It was a common way. You went music videos, then you went TV advert, and then from TV advert. That's how your natural graduation would happen. And there's a whole history of people. I worked with Brett Ratner, who ended up becoming a big movie director. He was another hip hop music director. Look at some of those hip hop videos of Hype. Williams in that area. They look better than movie.

Uyi

I want to say a lot of the music videos at that point in the, uh, I'd say the late 80s, early 90s, looked like movies.

Nick

Yes, especially like Puffy in those things. It's unbelievable, because let's say you make your first pop music video, and in those times, there's bigger budgets, but let's say you're doing it for 2030, $40,000. Then you get reputation to 100 and 2150 thousand dollars. Then you get a TV advert at the time, let's say half a million dollars. So what you're doing is you're going up the financial scale at each stage. If you tick the box, then the next person is comfortable to say, you know what? You did that one. And I'll give you a $10 million movie to do. Yan Demarge. Yeah. Janae. He did Top Boy. He was doing music videos. He used to hustle me every time we trained in the morning. Nick, Nick, come on, give me a music video. And today, now, Yann is the producer on Top Boy, but he made 71 with Jack O'Connell, which is a brilliant movie. So, again, uh, we've lived it in the thing, and I'm very fortunate. One of my artists and one of my writers won an Oscar as well. So you live in this crazy world that we live in. All these incredible creative people who we just know as guys who wear their pajamas and try and beat you up at the weekend.

Uyi

It's a very interesting microcosm. You meet so many people who you would have probably never met in your normal day to day life.

Nick

One of my favorite round here, by the way. I always remember the call. So I watched this thing called Chef Table on Netflix. Have you ever seen it? Brilliant. Okay. Best chefs in the world, they go to the restaurants and they talk to him about their history and how they got to this point. And in series two, episode two or three, is a Brazilian guy who is the fourth best chef in the world and has a restaurant called Don. It's the 7th best restaurant in the world. He's like one of the top ten guys on both sides of restaurant and being a chef, right? He's voted in both categories. And I watched his episode. He's a tattooed guy, he's a cool guy. He's a similar age to me. And I watch it and I see he's from Brazil. And he says, I train every day, this thing called Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. And there he is training at Fabregajal. Right things. Anyway, about, uh, three or four weeks after I'd watched it, I hadn't watched it soon as it came out, I just got into a series quite late. I wandered to the Academy and I walk in and all the Brazilians are chatting to this guy. And there's a bunch of black belts. There's Roger and there's key one and a few people and I go to shake their hand, and I looked to my left and there's Alexa. So I was like, Yo, you're Alexa? And he's like, Yes, I am. Do I know you? And I said, no. What's your chef's table? I said, man, looks amazing. Oh, yeah, nice to meet you. Didn't get to roll that day. So I said to key one, I'm going to Sao Paulo. He said, well, you've got to reach out to Alex. Alex said, you met Nick when you're in London. He's come to Sao Paulo and we need to take care of him. And he sent me a WhatsApp back. Do you want to train? I train at 10:00 every morning. I said, 100%, but I got to see what the band are doing because my priorities come see the band. And he said, well, if you can train and what we should do is get some food. After I take to one of my restaurants. This is the top ten chefs in the world anyway, so I go there. I get off the plane at 06:00 in the morning. I'm going through customs. I jump into the car that's waiting for me to take me to my hotel. I walked up the tour manager, day to day manager of the group, and he said, Nick, I'm so sorry we can't hang with you. One of us has had food poisoning. We've been overnight flight, private plane from Mexico down to Sao Paulo. It's been a nightmare journey. Everyone hasn't slept. We're all going to take the afternoon to sleep. We're going to go sound check at five, meets at five. Sorry to have left you in Sao, uh, Paulo on your own. I was like, no problem. And I sent a note to Alex. I mean, what are we doing? He said, 10:00, Damien Myers. So he gives me the address. I go to my hotel, I get my stuff together, jump in a cab, I go down there and I get to the gym, and I'm like, 5 minutes early, 10 minutes early. Damien My walks out, and there's a sectioned off area in the corner of this huge map, bigger than we've ever seen in the UK. And then Alex turns up. Uh, and I said, Hi, Nick, how are you? I'm great. And then we come out and he said, yo, you see this cornered off area here? We're going to train. And Nick, you and me, we're partners. I was like, what? Damien Maya is going to be my partner for 40 minutes of the hour and 20 that we trained. I was one on one with Damien Meyer, by the way. It's maybe not as bad, but very close to Roger nightmare, right? And then I finished, and I had the geekiest best morning. And Alex said, listen, I've invited all my English speaking friends, and Damian speaks perfect English. We're going to have a lunch in honor of you being here. And he took me to one of his restaurants. He sat on the table, ordered for all of us. I had lunch at 01:00. We finished at three, and I had to be at the sound check by five. And when I got to the sound check, everyone's so sorry, man. Sorry we left you here. And I was like, no, dude.

Speaker C

I have no idea.

Nick

You have no idea how good it was. And the security guys of the band said, what have you been doing, Nick? Because they all knew me. And I was like, oh, I've been training, uh, Jujitsu. And I said, with anyone we know? And they all love MMA. I was like, Yeah, Damien. Mine are like, no way. I was like, get my phone out. Showing the pictures of me and Damien, it was the best day. Oh, my God. But one of the top chefs in the world, I wouldn't know him. And by the way, I never got to meet him. But no, Bourdain was at Henzos all.

Uyi

The time, wasn't it?

Nick

Before he passed?

Uyi

Yeah, 100%. So I never watched Chef's Table, and I met Alex right at the gym. And the only reason I know he is because obviously you're at the gym, and the guy's like, do you know who that is? I'm like, no, who is it? That's the top chef in Brazil. He's one of the top chefs in the world. Really?

Nick

Yeah.

Uyi

No, he's really one of the top chefs. Okay. But it's one of those things where you pass so many people yeah. And you may have no idea. You might even roll with them and have no idea who these people are. So it's incredible. Jujitsu 100% brings people together, and, uh, it's a special martial art. I was going to ask you a question. Okay? You may not know the answer to this. Do you know what was the most expensive music video ever made? Because that would be interesting.

Nick

I would guess if you use inflation, I doubt you're going to get many that are more expensive than the big Michael Jackson moment.

Uyi

I know Michael Jackson paid mine and Brando a hell of a lot of money. Yeah, that might be the most expensive thing.

Nick

I think some of those puffy videos that Hype williams made there could be up to $3 million screened by Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson one Die Another Day, uh, which is Madonna. David, uh, Fincher, again did Express Yourself from Madonna estranged Guns and Rose. Andy Morahan, who's an English director, because.

Uyi

You vintage to it. You have noticed he's won an Academy Award. You've been to the academies.

Nick

Yes, I have.

Uyi

And the Academy was crazy this year. Um, we're not getting into the whole craziness.

Nick

I backed the wrong side at the beginning, I believe now, because I was pro Will Smith at the beginning.

Uyi

Oh, I wasn't.

Nick

I love Will Smith as well. I'd read the book, and I'm a big fan. And he's the first ever guy to win a Rap Grammy at, uh, first I thought, listen, it was an unnecessary joke on his wife, who's obviously got an anxiety based illness, and that's not cool. But you're a professional. The guy is a professional comedian. And if you got beef with him and it's somebody you know personally deal with, it outside the situation. I think Chris Rock comes out of it, dignified his behavior.

Uyi

I agree.

Nick

It's not acceptable for two professionals, particularly two professionals in a global event with the cameras rolling, and it was inappropriate, but he's paid to be there to roast the audience. But it doesn't get Will Smith the acceptance to hit him. And number two is he should have gone back after and said, dude, that's my wife. She's suffering anxiety. You overstepped tomorrow. And I'd like an apology to her. Now, if he turns around and says, Fuck you, Will. And they have an altercation backstage that's between them, and that's still not acceptable to raise your hand outside of a ring or a dojo or a cage to another person because I'm a pacifist outside of the sport. But there comes a responsibility of being a famous person.

Uyi

There does.

Nick

Right.

Uyi

But it's a huge responsibility.

Nick

I know that I deal with famous people for my entire business life, but their behavior affects my income and affects.

Uyi

Their career and the career of others.

Nick

And the career of others. And there is a responsibility and a burden with being rich, and there's a responsibility and a burden of being famous. And unfortunately, if you cannot take that responsibility, then you're not fit to wear the crown.

Uyi

So you said at first you were on Team Will.

Nick

Yes, I was.

Uyi

Why are we on Team Will?

Nick

My initial response was semi sexist without meaning to be sexist, but there was some gallantry about it, standing up for his wife. But then when you watch it back he laughs at the joke with everyone else in the room. He then sees her reaction, and then he overreacts. Now, with hindsight, and maybe with the bias of hearing what everyone else says, and a lot of women saying to me, that wasn't cool because it wasn't a call to violence.

Uyi

It wasn't necessary.

Nick

It wasn't necessary. Now, I've never been subject to racism. Obviously, because of the nature of what I am and who I am and how I was born, I've been subject to antisemitism. I can clearly tell you that. But some of the most incredible responses I've seen to people who have been abused racially or anti Semitically is stoicism, right? It's saying, someone, you're entitled your opinion. I am who I am. I am why I am, and I'm proud of what I am. And you can be as abusive as you like, but you ain't going to get rise out of me. Sometimes that causes someone more pain than someone saying, okay, I'll step to you. I'll slap you down. Now, I cannot criticize one person for dealing with that situation differently to another because I've rarely been subject to it. But this wasn't that level of I.

Uyi

Was about to say. I wouldn't say I'm a pacifist. I don't condone violence, but I do believe that violence can be necessary. This was not, in my opinion, a situation that called for violence. However, uh, we are not Will Smith. He lives his life, and we do not know what he was going through, and we do not know what Jade was going through, and I don't know what made him do the things that he did that night. I don't know.

Nick

None of us do.

Uyi

None of us do. So who am I to judge? Who are we to judge? However, I don't think what he did was the right response. Because, like you said, Chris Rock is there to roast people. He's there to joke. He's a comedian. And comedians push for boundaries, especially comedians like Chris Block. And he's not the most offensive comedian.

Nick

No way.

Uyi

Ricky Gervais came out and said, I'd have made a completely different joke. And, um, he's been at the Golden Globes. Right. Just destroyed and year after year, brilliant. Brilliant. But destroyed people so badly. People at the Oscars, they know they're going to get ribbed a little bit. Obviously, uh, Jada took offense at a joke, which is she's entitled to do that. Was it a good joke? It wasn't a good joke because it wasn't very funny.

Nick

But the whole room laughed. Right. Wow. Yeah.

Uyi

But you know, when people laugh at something that's not that funny, but they're laughing because while everyone else is laughing. So we need to laugh.

Nick

So if the next day, he puts a post up to, uh, say, we as a family are offended by this joke, and for those who want to know more about the causes of alopecia, here's a link to the thing. Yes. And I have discussed this directly with Chris, and he's either apologized or he hasn't, whatever. That in this modern day is the appropriate response. Now, I understand, I agree with you, I'm a pacifist. But if there's a threat of danger to my family or to my loved ones and I had no choice but to intervene, I would have to make a measured decision and response. And to what level that response is depends on how heightened the danger is. Okay, but that was not that. This was merely sticks and stones will break my bones. Words will never hurt me. It's a cliche. It's the thing you're taught as a child. Right. And it's very hard. I will accept it's very hard when the things have been said to you for the people who have had to grow up with extreme prejudice, right? Extreme prejudice. I, uh, do not know because I've been rarely, fortunately, a victim of that stuff. Occasionally, but rarely more passiveaggressive, antisemitism. I'm sure you everyday are subject to passiveaggressive racism. Now, you let a comedian go in there, he makes a joke. It's very hard as a comedian because sometimes you overstep the line and you push a boundary. But if you're a comedian and you never go to the line, you'll never be good as a comedian because you're so safe, you're so boring that your jokes like, oh, my God, it's not things. So Chris Rock, I don't think was malicious. I don't think he meant a spiteful intent. He made an ill judged joke that, as you said, was not his best joke on the night and will be the joke he's remembered for on it the worst thing for Will Smith and the worst thing for a man who's had such an exemplary career. He won the Oscar for best actor, and the only thing you're going to remember from that night is he slapped Chris Rock. Now they'll say, did Will Smith want an Oscar? And someone will say, was that the night he hit Chris Rock?

Uyi

Hell yeah, he did. He slapped a man on the side of Chris Rock. I'm not an advocate of free speech. I actually don't believe that all speech should be uncensored. I think sense speech should be censored, because I don't think we just cancel people. But I do think that people need to realize sometimes if you say things, you get slapped in the face. Because we live in this digital internet age where people think, I can say what I like, and that's not on. You shouldn't be able to say what you like. However, a comedian is only making a joke. I love comedians. They are joking. The academy knew who they were calling when they brought Chris Rock back.

Nick

Everything that he would have said on night would have been vetted by the academy. I'm telling you that now.

Uyi

It's interesting because comedians have been challenged today for what they've said. We've had Joe Rogan, we've had dave Chappelle. We've had challenged like, you shouldn't be saying these things, or you should be saying these things. What is the line in comedy? And that has just opened up this massive conversations about racism, uh, and misogyny against black women. These are valid points. There's been conversations about Will Smith's past experiences because he's written his book. I haven't read his book. Apparently, one of the big areas, and you can confirm this, is he failed as a young, um, child, as a young man, because his father was abusive and he didn't defend his mother. His mother.

Nick

Can I ask you a question? Right. And this might be too personal question. You might say no, you, uh, might want to not answer the question. You remember growing up, certain TV programs are on, certain comedians are on. Let's, um, say Jim Davison or let's say Bernard Manning, and people like that.

Uyi

And they were mainstay made a lot of racist jokes.

Nick

Made a lot of racist.

Uyi

And then you had Alf Ghani rising, uh, down.

Nick

Apologies. As someone who grew up during that era, do you think that was symptomatic of the times, of the lack of general education in that subject, or do you think those people were actually active racist? Again, I'm only looking at it from the outside looking in. Everyone watch Minor Language. It was on around the same sort of time as chips and ateam and stuff like that. That was on TV to, uh, me. I was a young child as a kid. You'd watch those programs? Yeah, they were hilarious, but they were totally inappropriate.

Uyi

Mindful Language was funny.

Nick

It was a funny show.

Uyi

If you don't see Minor Language, it's an English teacher teaching English as a foreign language to all these foreign students who are just hysteria.

Nick

Do you know where we get milk from? We get milk from cows, hacker, cowlex. My friend who I am working with every morning, he's telling me last night's. Who can tell me what this is? Bacon. Good. And where does bacon come from? Edamin? Bacon does not come from the milkman. Three weeks, I buy the bacon from the middle. Pig. Pig? You are calling me a pig? You are a pig. You Italian. Uh, shut your plates up. Meet you until now, what Giovanni was trying to say is that bacon comes from a pig. Now, can anyone tell me what we call a pig after it has been killed? Yes, please. It is dead. Pig.

Uyi

Was it racist? 100% it was racist. Will I say that I didn't laugh?

Nick

No.

Uyi

I laughed because there were jokes in that that were funny for its time and even today, probably that's funny. Was it appropriate? That's a difficult question. Probably not. But is it difficult with comedy? Because in my mind, when someone is making a joke, are they just telling a joke, or are they trying to deliberately be derogatory to someone? Intentionally trying to deride someone based on their culture. Now, uh, if they're just saying a joke, where the joke could be about anything, and there are comedians who make jokes that you might think are racist, sexist, or, I don't know, anti Semitic, and then they'll say, But I'm only joking, and I'm joking about all these things, this is a joke. And I'm not saying white comedian. I remember Reginald D. Hunter, I think he's Canadian, but he's a black Canadian comedian who's based in the UK. Being on TV, lots of shows and stuff. I've been to his shows, and he got in trouble, actually, because he made a joke. I can't remember what the joke was, but he made a joke which some of the Jewish community in the UK fought was antisemitic, and he said, But I'm fucking, um, joking. You've come to a comedy show, it's a joke. I don't know him personally, but I believe he was joking. So, now, Joe Rogan had this big controversy because of aspects of his shows in the past where he said offensive things. Yeah, and I don't know Joe Rogan, but I've listened to enough of his podcast to genuinely think that he is not a racist. I don't know him, but I think he's not a racist. However, I do know he's a comedian, and I do know he's trying to be funny. Now, does that mean that what he said he should have said? It not necessarily going back to what you said about the racist TV shows in the past. The problem was that some of the stereotypes that were being shown were more akin to mocking the community. Whether you're Jim Davidson doing like a Patoir. Yeah, exactly. I think Alf Garnett was racist. I do think it was a massively racist show. I don't think that kind of show was appropriate for its time. However, this was a time where views on people who are living in the UK from other countries were, uh, quite negative.

Nick

Xenophobic yeah. Now, is Alf Garnet himself, Warren Mitchell, a racist? I don't think so. But was the writing of the show representative of the negative society feeling towards outsiders? Yes, I do.

Uyi

That's it.

Nick

But is it reflective of the times, and have we grown as society and hopefully become more tolerant of each other and more accepting of each other? The funny thing I've always thought is I went to see Dave Chappelle in New York, and I've seen people like Jackie Mason. If a non Jew made those jokes about Jews, it'd be anti Semitic. But as Jackie Mason makes them, it's funny. Now, same way I've seen black jokes from Chris Rock, who I've seen, Kevin Hart, who I've seen, Dave Chappelle, who I've seen. Now, if a white comedian made the same joke, it's unacceptable. But I think there is a logic, uh, to that, which is you can roast your own community because you're one of the community, and therefore what you say about your own community is self deprecated. And that's your decision to make a joke about something. It's such an interesting subject because we do live in this crazy council culture, and I've seen people around me get canceled for things that were stupid and ill informed, things that they've done. But you actually would know that person and say, actually not a racist person. They've done stupid things. We all make mistakes, and Will Smith made a mistake. I'm not ever going to watch a Will Smith film because I think that what he did on that night was wrong. Do I want to never listen to Joe Rogan podcast because he used the N word inappropriately? Unacceptable in a couple of gigs? No. Do I hope he's learned from that and he chooses not to do in the future? I think he's learned his lesson. And have I said and done things in the past that probably, with hindsight, if someone reminded me, I'd probably say, oh, that was probably a stupid thing to do.

Uyi

I do think the intent is important because obviously people say, but how can this person can make that joke about this type of people? But I can't make that joke because I'm not in that demographic. How can black people can make this joke? Or black people can sing and say these words, but I can't do it because I'm whatever. I'm white. The thing is, when Chris Rock makes a joke, and he has you've watched his shows, he's made jokes using the N word all the time. In fact, he said, there's a difference between black people and there's a difference between N word. But when he's saying that, his intent is not to deride or degrade his community because he loves his community, but when someone out of the community says it, are you just making a joke or are you trying to laugh at us?

Nick

Right?

Uyi

Are you trying to put us down? Talking about JayZ. JayZ was on Oprah, and she said, I have a real problem with you using the N word. And he said, Why? Because he said, Well, I'm taking back that word. I'm reclaiming it, and I am changing its meaning. And she said, you have to remember that there are many, um, thousands of black people who died, and that word was the last thing they heard. And that's why I don't like it when people say that word. Now, I'm not going to say it's wrong or it's right for a hiphop artist to use it, and I'm not going to say it's wrong or right for Quentin Tarantino to have a character in, uh, his film use it. But I do understand that some people will be offended and some people will be like, no, I don't take offense to it. The difficulty is, where is the line? And I don't think there is anybody who can define where the line is. And this is what leads to the council culture, because the council culture is people are deciding, this is the line. And you're like, Is it okay? If that is the line, then how do you judge what is closer to the line or what is over the line? What can we say? What can't we say for people in general? Because of Twitter, because of Instagram, because of keyboard warriors, people just say what they like and they say the most disgusting things knowing that they're hiding behind his veil. And I don't think that's right.

Nick

I totally agree. Every one of those Google's, Twitter, Facebook, uh, Instagram, Snapchat, uh, whatever you have done your abuse on, they can get your IP, they can get to you. Now, if I commit a crime and I commit a crime on the Internet, it's still a fucking crime. And in my opinion, if you're inciting racial hatred, if you are inciting Islamophobia, antisemitism crimes against women, crimes against any human beings that you're inciting violence and aggression towards in a clearly aggressive way, it should be the same crime. And you should know that you will get outed and you will get charged, and you're risking your job and your livelihood because those things matter to even the worst racist. And the fact that we live with these multibillionaires playing God, refusing to give the details out of these people who are vile human beings, in my opinion, and ruining a society that I love. The reason I love living in London is everyone is from a different part of the world. The reason I love doing Jiu Jitsu is I could live in my world of music, hanging out with famous and wealthy. And at the level I'm at, you're seeing people who are more affluent, ever less society. And what they don't understand is why I go and get beat up by people who are students, by people who are trying to be professional fighters, by people who are PT instructors. And I get the most enjoyment by the mixture of people, the people of all different backgrounds. To me, that's the joy of doing what I do. That's the joy of my hobby. That's a society that I like. Those people going back behind their keyboard and referring to those three players by the color of their skin, and they let their country down. They did not let their country down. They missed three bloody penalties that they wanted to score more than any dickhead who's on that thing. And I think it's up to these digital platforms and the police and the government to out those people. One of them was a school teacher, I believe. Yes. Out those people. I was drunk. I'm a school teacher. I didn't mean it. Sorry, bro. I also believe alcohol, drugs, if you say, Oh, I never would have squeezed a girl's ass who I didn't know in a nightclub it was, I was drunk and I was on drugs, no, that just magnifies the level of prick that you are. You are a prick in the first place. And money makes people magnify their bad behavior. Fame, alcohol does, drugs do. And the bottom line is, if you're a bad person and you're doing stuff behind the cover of a keyboard, you should be responsible for your behavior, because you put it out, you published it in the real world. Now, if you put something on your Instagram or you put something up, and someone makes a comment about it based on the color of your skin, that is a racist attack on you. And if they say, Fuck this guy. If anyone sees this guy, fuck him. Beat him up. I would say that's as aggressive as it can be, and you have every right to please help me find this guy. I'll give you one last example. I had a bank with Jos. It kind of upset me, and I hopefully, uh, won't get emotional about it. They're four of the nicest human beings we've ever met, and girls love them. I mean, please God, I was as goodlooking as any of them, right? But girls love them, and we will put video up with them, and we would get regular about ten different names. I'm not sure if that's one person or multiple person were put up to every girl's comment. How can, uh, you love those monkeys, quote, unquote, they swing in the jungle. I mean, just got more and more racist. There was nothing other than pure hatred and racism. So we inform the police, we inform YouTube, we inform Google, and they all told us there's nothing they could do about it. I said, this is happening every time. And these teenage girls who are saying, I'm in love with JLS, as someone who is responsible for their career, as someone who is their record company, I want something done about it, because this is unacceptable. And I don't want to stop the comments because the girls love making comments. But you've got these ten names, and it could all be one person. It could be a group of people. And the truth is, I was sitting there, and I am not the black person being abused, but I am proud of the boys. They're my guys, and they're getting abused in a way that has nothing to do with it. If you said your music shit and you're idiots, I have to accept that. But this was based merely on what they look like. And the stuff was so base, so awful, it was so schoolboy behavior, and I guarantee it was someone older than schoolboy. And what pissed me off was Google would have been able to find that person and their server pretty quickly. Give the police the address and say, the police go round there and compensate the computer. And you can find out using a forensic computer guy. If he's the one putting it up, that's offensive and deal with it. We have to have a responsibility. We should be regulated. We need to protect each other. That's why we need government. And as someone who likes a free market, as someone who is not a socialist by choice, I want someone to make our society safe. I do not want twelve year old girls reading comments about four black kids, about them being monkeys and eating bananas and swinging from trees by people who are saying it in the nastiest way. It is unacceptable, um, and needs to be dealt with. And it's disgusting because in the meantime, Google and YouTube, which is one company, are making billions of pounds. I only noticed that with JLS, then I noticed it during the European finals. I'm sure it happens in American basketball games. Boy should be dealt with.

Uyi

No out of everyone, right? I don't believe in total freedom of speech because of exactly the points you've highlighted. I do think you should be allowed to express yourself. There is a line, I don't know where the line is. People feel now entitled the Internet is an amazing thing. It's incredible. But now people use it to troll infamously, uh, beat up a guy who would troll him and would say the most horrific things about him and about his family and about his kids, and Deontay Wilder beat the fuck uh, out of him. And I'm like, well, yeah, because you asked for it. You troll that man so badly. Why do you think there is no consequence to what you do?

Nick

But don't say, wildlife should have been able to report that to the police. And the police should have said to you, Wildlife, leave it with us, and we'll charge that guy. Now, let me say something to your point of freedom of speech. If I have a situation with an element of society and I want to write, I believe this because of this reason in a measured way, even if I despise what they say, and people follow that person and say, I agree with them, they're entitled to have an opinion that I don't like. Do I think people are entitled to have an opinion that is completely opposite of mine? And do I not like their opinion? 100%. But at least if you put up there to be criticized and discussed, and someone else could come on and say, that shit is so old and we know that's not true, it's like people who miss cite the Bible to make the point of their things. And I'm like, Dude, that's insane. Now, do I believe organized religion is a good thing for a large part of society? Yes, I do. Do I believe that as someone who can be an atheist or an agnostic, can choose to step outside of organized religion and ignore the books that are written, the Quran, the Bible, the Torah, and say, listen, it's not for me, that's acceptable as well. But if I turn around and scream at people who are Catholics or Protestants and say, oh, you retard. That's a made up book. Are you stupid? And I'm picking on the reverend. That's a different thing to saying. Personally, I think this and this about organized religion, and I might be not measured in my thoughts, but I'm, um, not picking on the individual. I'm saying I think what you're about is wrong. Now, in total, that's like saying, as a capitalist, I believe this. As a socialist, you believe that it's a debate and you might put something up. But a load of socialists say, Oh, my God, that's so misinformed. But I'm not going to ease next Tuesday because he believes in a different political thing. To me, that becomes personal. Now, if we're two adults and you represent one sign or represent the sign, I say, if you read you his writing last week, again, he makes a fundamental error. He said this, I can prove why it's wrong. And you come back and say, Nick always chooses to switch it. That's a debate between human beings. When I can become personal with you.

Uyi

And say you are your there's nothing wrong with opinions. I think it was, um, Neil degrasse Tyson who said, you're entitled to your personal opinion. You're not entitled to your personal facts.

Nick

Yes.

Uyi

So people are entitled to opinions. People often misconstrue opinions with facts, which is a dangerous thing, especially with the Internet. So people just say, these things are facts and they're not facts. That's your opinion.

Nick

Yes.

Uyi

And you're entitled. And I might agree, I might disagree, and vice versa.

Nick

Another example. If you put up child porn on any of those sites that we mentioned, the Googles, or the Facebook or the Instagrams or any of those things, it comes down immediately. You will be taken down absolutely immediately. So if we can take that down immediately but it's as equally as offensive as someone saying, kill all black people, or kill all Jewish people, or kill all Islamic people. Whatever you want to choose is equally as offensive. Now, someone might listen to this and say, he's totally out of order. Child pornography is the worst thing in the world. It's absolutely abhorrent. But they managed to take that down immediately. So they do have the ability to take stuff down. Now, having worked in the music business, when someone breaches copyright and they're informed, they take it down pretty fucking quickly. And I'm sure there's lots of copyright infringement films and TV, and they say, this person hasn't correctly labeled this, so I'm not getting paid on it. Take the bloody thing off. Well, we can do that when there's a commercial reason, but when there's a reason, which I think is even more important to society because you do not want your child accidenting upon something that then they say, Daddy, what does this mean? And you say, how the nick, show me how you found this. How did you search to get to, uh, this and your child misrepresenting misspell Sonning put something in innocently and they see the wrong thing, you're going to be pissed. And then someone will say, we'll all just go on the Dark Web and put it on there. Okay, we should monitor the web as well. Now, if they're just writing up stuff saying, I'm pro main camp and I'm proud of Hitler, unfortunately, they're entitled to say that. But if they're saying, I hope you go out there and kill Jews and black people and gay people on the streets of London, then we should be knocking on their door because they are inciting hatred online.

Uyi

Yeah, I think the world to write it. You are. And nothing of what you're saying is wrong. There are so many layers to it. Not to defend Facebook or Google, but didn't Zuckerberg say when he was called before the Senate, they said, well, why don't you police, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? And he said, well, because that's your job. Your job as government is to tell us what the boundaries are.

Nick

He's correct. And they should be saying to him, the following things are a problem, and you need, as a company operating in our society, to give us the details you have of people that are inciting violence against any group in society.

Uyi

Uh, something should be done and can be done. And I don't think the big tech corporations are doing enough. I don't think the governments of the Western world in particular are doing enough about the issue. I think that's what has led to people taking it into their own hands. Sometimes counterculture is good. Sometimes someone being called out and people tracking that person down, calling them out, and that person loses their job. Or someone has filmed you doing it and posted it, and that's the consequence. So sometimes it's a good thing. However, who should, uh, be the police? Well, I don't think people should always be taking the law into their own hands. But if the government and the big corporations who have a responsibility do not, then what do they expect? Even going back to the whole Will Smith and Chris Rock thing, they've not chosen to be role models, but they are role models.

Nick

You said they've chosen not to be role models. They've chosen to pursue a career that they knew would make them famous and hoped that they would make them rich. And with those things comes a responsibility. They, by definition, now have a different level of responsibility.

Uyi

100%.

Nick

Okay? If a punter walked out of the audience think about that for a minute. Imagine you went to a comedy show, someone made a joke. How many times did a comedian say, what the fuck is that top you're wearing? Did your mother dress you? I've seen that a million times. He imagine some dude gets up and goes, my mum died this week. Bitch, and punches the comedian. What would happen to that person? They would be arrested immediately. So what gives Will Smith the right to strike the comedian who makes a joke at his thing? Because on this basis, if we allow that, then every person who gets heckled by a comedian has the right. Now tend to stage and say, I'm declaring the Will Smith amendment here.

Uyi

You set a predator.

Nick

You didn't convict Will Smith. How can you convict me? I did the same thing. He made a joke about my mother.

Uyi

The Will Smith defense.

Nick

Can you imagine?

Uyi

That became a real thing.

Nick

Yeah, he made a joke about my girlfriend. I went on the stage. I'd rugby tackle. You can't be doing that shit. That's the danger of what we're doing here. We're setting an example. And by the way, I didn't choose to be a role model. You did. You did. When you accept the role of being a famous person, you know, even though you can say, I didn't choose, you know, there's a responsibility of going that. I was ahead of a record company for the last 25 years of my life, for three different record companies. Before that, I was an employee for two years. I was also a club promoter for a number of years. When you are a club promoter, there are certain things you can't do in your club on a night that you could do as a punter that would be regarded afterwards as inappropriate as the person running the event. The same is true when I was running a company. If I found an attraction to a member of my staff. These days, council cultures say I'm abusing my position of someone in charge. By the way, many people have met their future partner at work, but the person in charge, you know, that sort of stereotype of the that successful men would have sex with their secretaries and lead their wives to the secretaries was a cliche. It was a thing. Right. But you now know, because it's clearly stated in our modern culture, this is not acceptable behavior.

Uyi

But now a lot of companies have a code of ethics.

Nick

Okay, cool. So if you're a famous person, there are a code of ethics that are not written down, but you, um, know, and I know it goes with being fucking rich and successful and having all the benefits of having a driver and flying private planes or flying first class. You can't behave a certain way.

Uyi

Let me ask you something, then, because obviously you've signed a lot of artists who have not been famous.

Nick

Yes.

Uyi

You've also signed people who have been famous, and maybe they've changed labels. Right. You find people who have not been famous and they're stepping into that limelight.

Nick

Yes.

Uyi

Where does the conversation come?

Nick

Listen, I had one of the worst situations in modern times, and I was asked to merge two labels into one, and the other label was a label called Red Ink. It was a distribution label for the Sony companies. And within that was a band called Lost Profits. They were successful British rock band. And I met the band and I went to see them play live, and I started making a couple of records with them. And I got to be honest, my interactions with them with some of the most professional and some of the most courteous relationship I've ever had with a pop band, rock band, whatever you want to call them. They had one of the most famous and professional managers in the music business from America. And it later, uh, Transpired, the lead singer in he's been convicted and gone to prison for Peter, filled with babies. It's one of the most disgusting things you could ever imagine. And I promise you, prior to anyone knowing this, you could have brought him into any situation. And he was one of the single most charming, lovely human beings, you thought. But this person was, by definition of the convicted crimes, probably one of the most despicable people you could imagine. And you were not to know that. Now, he was in a relationship with a Radio One DJ that was his fiance. She clearly didn't know that was going on. None of us knew. I didn't know them well enough. I would talk to them about their music and them sending me music, and I interact with them and tell them, that's great, do you want me to get another mix engineer? Would you like me to reach out to a producer on this? That was my relationship, purely professional. And at no point was there any indication I don't know how anyone indicates that stuff, but I've been very blessed on the other side having some of the most charming, wonderful people who have been blown up to be very famous in the UK. Paloma Faith, holly Murs, uh, JLS, scouting for Girls, sam Smith, the Joy of signing JC in 1996. One of the nicest human beings I've ever met. I've been very lucky to have worked with extremely nice people who have really good moral competences that I've always found them to be. Professional courtesy to me maybe can't be a professional courtesy back to them. And some of them have turned out to be my friends. Some of them haven't been signed to me for years and still reach out to me, and I still reach out to them, and I adore them. You hope that the people around them and yourself and everyone else keeps their feet on the ground and explains what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. But at the same time, my relationship with them, first and foremost is a commercial relationship. And then some of them you become closer to and more friendly with and you have a greater influence. And you hope that the managers and you hope that the family that a lot of them have their own families, you generally find I've been very lucky. Of the 27 years I've had one absolutely hideous incident. I have one artist that was accused, wrongly accused, of rape and went to court and was exonerated when the boys in JLS, one of the nicest human beings, and it's terrible, but when he was accused, it was on the front page of every newspaper. And when he was exonerated, I found it nowhere, which is terrible. You hope that the people you work with, like, uh, anyone you work with, you can work with. Someone in that business you work with every day. And it could turn out that they're stealing money online, or they had a terrible gambling or drug habit you didn't know about. We're not perfect as human beings. 99% of all my recording artists have been good people that I adore, and the one or two that have had problems, I didn't even know about it. And when I did know about it, I was, to be honest, as surprised as everyone else. And that Ian Watkinson from lost profits for weeks and months. I was like, confused every day. It was on the front page of the newspaper, and the trial was about to happen and everything else. I was like, no fucking way. And people are like, did you know? Of course I didn't fucking know. How do you react to that? Both bit worse than Will Smith slapping someone. Yeah.

Uyi

Not even relatable, but yeah, you don't know people to obviously you've had a long career in the music industry. The way people are being discovered, uh, now, the way people are putting their music out, is it easier or is it harder, uh, today than it was back in the day?

Nick

Everything's just different. There's an incredible executive, his name is Clive Davis. I think he had his 90th birthday this week. He discovered Whitney Houston. Here Simon Mcgarfunkal. Bartha Franklin is one of the greatest of all time. And I one day work for him. I worked for him in the late ninety s. I was a head of an R for Aristotle, the UK. And he was the president and CEO of Aristotle in America. And he wrote me a lovely, lovely, lovely facts. At the time that I got my job as head of an R, and uh, was incredibly brilliant. I spent a night out with him, with the artist for me. And I was Prince at the time. Prince, which was incredible for 48 hours. An honor and a pleasure. I'll never forget it. And when he'd written his book, I read his book, and I'm a complete, um, fanboy, and I sent him an email and it said, clive, I don't know if you remember me, I used to work for you in the late 90s, going on to have a career elsewhere. I read your book. I'm a huge fan of the Clive Davis method. Clive Davis, there's no such thing, uh, as Clive David. But I love the way he made records. I love the way he looked for artists. And I did all these things and I didn't hear anything for six weeks. And I thought, maybe my fawning email for this guy is irrelevant. And then six weeks later, I received the most considered and well written email back and it said, Dear Nick, of course I remember you. I apologize for the time to get back to you. I've been overwhelmed response, and I've been on a book tour of America. I haven't had time to respond properly to the people I want to respond to, and you're one of them. So he immediately made me feel special. And he does this whole email, and it's quite funny, and he said, Yes, I see you use the Clive Davis method on Sam Smith. Because Sam was huge at the time, and I was laughing because it's very Clive to do something like that. But to be honest, I did use in my head my version of the Clive Davis method. So Sam would love that, because Houston is one of Sam's favorite artists. At the end of the thing, he said, I've lived through many generations. I've lived through the eight track, the vinyl, the CD, the download, the streaming, the MySpace, all these things. I don't think we even got up to TikTok by then. TikTok hasn't even been a thing by them. Now. TikTok is the dominant role of today, and he name checked all these things. Distribution may have changed, formats may have changed. One thing remains the same. A star is still a star. A hit still a hit. Never forget that. He was truly tired. And I read that and I was like, Fuck, that's it. It doesn't matter. Yes, there are different ways to bring music to market. Music is consumed in a different way. Today is when I first started 27, uh, years ago. But what's true is back to where we really started this conversation, which is, some things are endearing forever. Mohammed Dali was a star. I am trying to look for people that will outlive me, outlive their, uh, music, and will be iconic forever. Jay Z and Sam Smith, probably the two most iconic that I've had, even though I've had loads of other incredible artists I'm super proud of, and I've achieved massively, brilliant things, but those two at the minute stand out. There would be the bookends of my career in some way, but I want to get at least one more, because when I name check Clive Davis, he did an amazing amount of artists, and he was involved in so many artists. But there are certain ones that you'll pick out and say they are the key ones, and that is what you're looking for. And for me, things have changed, but the fundamental most important thing has changed is to someone walk in the room and light up a room. Does someone open their mouth to sing? When Sam opened his mouth to sing, the first time I heard him. He physically moved me. I felt a feeling that I never felt in my life before. Fuck, this guy may change my life. And guess what? He did. They did now, but he did then. They are incredible. Uh, and when you meet Sam, whatever your preference are about them, whether you got an issue about the non binary thing, whether you got an issue about their opinions or their voice, whatever, they are beguiling. They are a magnet. They are incredible. And they will look you in the eye and they'll know something about you within 5 minutes. Because he cares. They care about the people they meet. And the great artists do. JayZ could do the same. Enter a room and within 10 minutes, UE feels like you're the most important person they've ever met. They have that ability to do that and that star appeal. And it's something special. By the way, all the artists I've.

Uyi

Worked with, does that happen straight away or is something that no, the really.

Nick

Great, the really special ones, they have this thing and you go, you can have a good voice, you can be good, and therefore your career reflects that you do well. And by the way, uh, you can do all these things without material. You rubbish anyway. But when you get someone who's like that and they get material I'll give you another example, someone I've never had signed as an artist, clearly, but I work with Ed Sheeran. Ed Sheeran must meet a million people. Ed Sheeran was promoting his song Shape of View, which he recently just won his court case. Congratulations, Ed. Steve and Johnny, they won the court case, which they claimed that they ripped it off, and they haven't. So they wrote another song that week, which was called Strip That Down, which Liam Payne, which is Steve We train with, manager of, they wrote that song that week as well. Both songs end up being global hits. Both end up being number one in America. And in that process, Ed is now promoting Shape of View around the world, jumping on private planes, going from city to city, radio to radio station. And I get an email from his email address. I won't repeat his email address online. It says, Nick, Ed here heard from Steve, the other writer producer who made the record. You're looking for a rapper to strip that down. Please, could you run ideas past me? I'd like to be involved in the conversation. Send one back. Aren't you, um, in the middle of doing a promo tour for your first single from your third album? Yup. Um, but still interested to make sure, first of all, work ethic. Oh my God, how hard? Second of all, immediately engaged in a way that was equal and polite. Um, the guy is about to have the biggest hit. He's a superstar and he's engaging with me on a level like I'm having a conversation. You have come to this podcast. Okay, cool. What day works? You Nick? Yeah. Cool. You call come to Western? Yeah. Cool. You call do this? Yeah, that's it. You've asked me. We know each other. It's cool. He treated me like that. Two chains. Do it once. And unfortunately, he put a lyric in there that was unacceptable to the fan base of a young One Direction member. Um, we then flipped it and we got Quavo from the Migos to do it. Ed was in that process. Next time I saw Ed, he remembered who I was, had a conversation with me. It's that human touch. And those great artists are brilliant at remembering. People are brilliant at making you immediately feel special. And it's an amazing skill set. They have a humility, by the way, the people who are just under, who haven't actually made it or think they're the top dogs. Listen, I'm honored the same way I was honored to be in a room with Jay Z when I was his record label. I've been honored for 14 years to share the map with my professor, my friend, and on top of it, the greatest at doing the sport of all time. I've met Alex ATLAR Chef. Brilliant. World class. Couldn't, uh, have been any more humble. Roger, world class. Maritza legend of British jiujitsu world class. I don't think he ever got beaten in competition being in the room with David Beckham through music, because I did a record with Victoria. When you're a goat, when you're a top, top level person, when you're really an expert in your field, why be a prick? You've got nothing to prove. And I see that in Sam. Sam wasn't a success overnight. It wasn't accidental. They've been practicing for years. I've got this incredible new artist I'm really excited about. And I met their mother the other day, and they were in Stage Coach, which at the time was an acting singing school for an age of four. Now they're only 17 now. So by the time someone said, Oh, no, it's sensation. Well, no, they've been training for this moment. You don't turn up as the best singer in the world. Adele went to Brit school. I'm sure she has a history of doing music before that. It's not an accident. 10,000 hours is the thing outliers.

Uyi

Like Malcolm Gladwell, they're all in a time 100%.

Nick

And I believe in that book. I love that book. And I will read it every two years, remind myself it's true. We have to put the effort in. I got a last one to make you laugh. I went to La one time, and a very, very famous record producer who used to be married to Jonny Mitchell, calls me and he said, Nick, my rabbi would like to meet you. I said, Dude, I'm not being funny yet. I struggled to even see my own rabbi in London, let alone go to L. A. And meet the rabbi. Why would I want to hang in a rabbi? No, my rabbi does Jiu. Jitsu? He's been Israeli army. He'd like to roll with you. So I was like, what? He's like, Yeah, I told him you're into Jiujitsu. And he said, when you come to La. You must come and roll with him. I was like, Right. So now I have a number in my phone. It's called the Jujitsu Rabbi. I don't even know his name. I text him, I went to meet him. I had to cancel, unfortunately.

Uyi

Right.

Nick

But the idea was I was going to meet him, go to a class that he was going to go into, and partner with him and roll with him. And I only know him in my thing is, I don't even know his real name.

Uyi

You do not need to know his name.

Nick

The world famous, legendary Grammy winning producer knows I'm into jihad, tells his rabbi, and his rabbi was like, mental. How did that happen?

Uyi

That is so funny.

Nick

Cool.

Uyi

We've been talking for, uh, a while. One thing I want to talk to you about, because you're now on new ventures now, you were the head of Capital, uh, Records, and now you've created something new.

Nick

I'm in the process of creating something new. We haven't officially announced I'm going to go into business with my ex business partner, who was the chairman of Warner's for a number of years. Um, we had a company called Northwest Side Records and we signed JV to it. We signed a bank on that level. He went off to have incredible success with artists like David Gray, Damien Rice, really big successful artist. Well, I went off with a lady who we worked with, both of us, years ago, and we had huge success with. A lot of the artists are really named, so don't want to repeat some of those artists. And we remained extremely good friends. I reached the pinnacle in the UK of what, uh, you can achieve. In my opinion, the music was youngest ever, had a record company, and then stayed in charge of record companies for 25 years. I've had and continued to have two successes, um, in America, with most miles, it's a multiple number one albums, more than 30 platinum singles in America, many, uh, multiple platinum albums. And it's all been incredible. And I think every organization, sony, B and G Universal, who I've worked with over the years, having facilitated all of my dreams and the things I wanted to do. But there's a 50 year old male who's done all those things, who made enough money that I could afford not to have to take a wage. I want a gamble, and the gamble is to start a new business, invest my own money, and I will partner with the major labels. But now, as a business partner rather than employee, I've got an incredible network of people, and I look forward to starting a new chapter. I got offered a job in 2016 to run one of the big American labels, which I thought would be the next challenge for me. But unfortunately, uh, as my contract came to the end at Universal, the opportunity that I wanted in America didn't exist because it's all about timing, and there's only so many jobs at that level, and the one I wanted had previously gone two years before, and it wasn't talked about me. And therefore, I realized that I was not viewed by the people around the company as someone who is a viable candidate. I've got to be honest, I was seriously disappointed. My ego took a big hit. But rather than get upset about it, then you've got to get on and you've got to do your new venture. So I'm doing my new venture. It started on March 28. It's going to be with my dear friend Chris and Tattfield. We've already got a couple of artists. We've got one artist everyone's already going crazy on, and we've hit the ground running. And to be honest, I just do what I do. It's like people say, doing jujitsu. I just do jiu jitsu every week. Jujitsu is part of my everyday life, and being a music executive part of my everyday life. Same way breathing is and eating it. It's my passion. And to be honest, I'm better at doing that than anything else. I can only live in.

Uyi

It's great to do your passion and even better to make a living from things that you love.

Nick

It's a pleasure and a blessing, because most people have jobs they hate. Uh, and on top of having jobs that you hate, the job that you do, that you love, let's say, being a schoolteacher or being a fireman, there is a limit to your income. If you sign Adele or you sign Sam Smith or you sign Jay Z or you own a company that have those artists on there, there is almost no limit to your income. And at the same time, you're having fun. I've had nights where you're literally sat there going, this can't be work. Someone can't be paying me to do this. Someone can't have flown me to La to go to the Oscars and win the fucking thing. It just wasn't comprehendible that that would happen. And I sat there and I was pinching myself the whole way through. And it was brilliant, and it was exciting, and it was, Oh, my God. And, um, I've had other days where I'm doing my passion and my job, and it's so depressing because an artist I've spent years working on has another failure. And you're like, we're going to have to end this relationship. And you are crestfallen, because I cared about that artist as much as I cared about Sam or Jay Z or, um, 5 Seconds of Summer or Liam Payne or Scouting for Girls or Ollie or JLS or any of the ones that have been successful. I cared about them equally as much. Unfortunately, they didn't get the break, or they weren't as good as I thought they were, or the material didn't turn out as well as it should have done. And I'm disappointed. And you just have to accept some days'is your day and Sundays is not your day. I live a dream. I live an incredible dream. And it's a pleasure. And by the way, now that I'm out of the major system, I'm doing lots of not for profit stuff and charity stuff, trying to help people with the knowledge and skills I have. I'm doing something with these guys, creating vision. A friend of mine, Kwan Mikwatm and Andrea and Nikki, did my first session with ten people who are there trying to help a mentor. Oh, my God. I was buzzing, bubbling. Couldn't help them any more than I could. It's brilliant because I was doing that anyway professionally. So I'm really enjoying my new life. Hopefully you're still saying that. I'm only one month in. I'm proud of our achievements. I wish the team who's left behind the best of luck, particularly my ex partner Joe, who is the woman who's going to run it, thinks she's an incredible executive. But it's time for me to be me and do my own thing. And it gives me time to do things like this podcast.

Uyi

Absolutely. And I appreciate it. Listen, we've had an amazing chat, Nick. I really appreciate you coming on. We've been talking for over 2 hours, so it's been good. You're not much of a social media man, but where can people follow you if they want to follow you?

Nick

At Nick raff on Instagram? I don't have a Twitter account. I don't think I've looked at it for years. I have a Facebook account. I definitely haven't even entered into it other than look at artists, which I sometimes do. The one the only one I'm probably active on is at Nic RAF on Instagram spelled Raphi. Am private. But I do accept certain invitations. Don't be offended if I don't accept you, but if you have a common person with me, or I can look at your page and you have common interests with me, I'm happy for you to follow me. So I'm not a public person, but I'm happy for people to follow me there.

Uyi

Cool. All right, man. It's been amazing. Thank you, Nick Raphael.

Nick

One thing I can do is talk.

Uyi

Okay, guys, that was Nick Raphael. As always, check out the show notes for more information about my guests. If you enjoyed this episode, I really recommend you check out episode 15, taylor Maid with Benjamin in Bling Phillips. In addition to episode eight and nine, which is a two part special, a master class for the legend.